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    <p>hi helen, <br>
    </p>
    <p>thank you for your feedback and comments. we did indeed talk a
      lot about how to describe our identity politics.</p>
    <p>i have summed up some additional thoughts (mostly what we also
      talked about but some also in addition to that):<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote>
      <p>the phrasing "women, lesbians and trans*" pays tribute to a
        branch of lesbian theory that makes a constructivist claim about
        gender, popularized by monique wittig (afaik). it states that
        lesbians are indeed not, or at least different than women
        because the social gender of 'women' is defined in relation to
        'men' (and lesbian identity would rather be defined in relation
        to other lesbians or women). of course many lesbians identify as
        women, such as some trans people, which are sometimes also
        lesbians :) so it is not three different categories, they are
        all intertwined. <br>
      </p>
      <p>and then there is another, historical argument for the
        additional naming of lesbians, which is the importance of their
        contribution to the 'women's
        movement'.Β  i think that the phasing 'women and lesbians' and
        later 'women, lesbians and trans*' also has a tradition in early
        feminist organizing but i would have to research that... </p>
      <p>if we only name the 'women, lesbians and trans*, the 'trans*'
        is meant to include non-binary people as they mostly
        transitioned away from their assigned sex at birth, even if they
        are not binary trans. however that is not true for inter people,
        which is not so cool i guess.</p>
      <p>so so other possibility is to go with the german acronym FLINTA
        which includes 'women, lesbians, inter, non-binary, trans and
        agender people'.</p>
    </blockquote>
    <p>i would wait a week or two to see if other people want to add
      something to this discussion before i upload the entry to
      alexandria.</p>
    <p>cheers,</p>
    <p>nate</p>
    <p></p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/25 12:08, Helen Varley Jamieson
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:29f00430-424d-46d1-b939-14657e0c6ea1@creative-catalyst.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <p>great work πŸ™‚ i made some comments & suggestions on the
        pad.</p>
      <p>h : )<br>
      </p>
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/17/25 22:17, adalanerd wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote type="cite"
        cite="mid:e9ffb496-bdbe-4433-af80-04cffbd3b5eb@hackstub.eu">
        <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
          content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
        <p>hi everyone!</p>
        <p>we took profit of this session to catch up and chat a bit
          with natx and carmela. we took some time to discuss the
          different phrasing options to replace the third and fourth
          iteration of "women" by a more relevant one, and we come up
          with a proposal for updating some bits. <br>
        </p>
        <p>- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://alexandria.anarchaserver.org/index.php/You_can_check_some_of_their_services_in_this_section#Systerserver"
            moz-do-not-send="true">https://alexandria.anarchaserver.org/index.php/You_can_check_some_of_their_services_in_this_section#Systerserver</a></p>
        <p>proposal:<br>
        </p>
        <blockquote>
          <div aria-live="assertive" id="magicdomid2008"
            class="ace-line"><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">Systerserver
              is one of the earliest known feminist server collectives.
              Systerserver was initially set up to get more women
              involved in technology. Currently, Systerserver is managed
              by women, lesbians and trans* people fighting against the
              [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                href="https://blackfeminisms.com/matrix/"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://blackfeminisms.com/matrix/</a>
              'matrix of domination']. There are two main aims to the
              project: a) creating a space where women, lesbians and
              trans* people can become system administrators and
              maintain free and open source software b) hosting feminist
              infrastructures for technopolitical organization within
              our communities and in part for other feminist
              initiatives. The server hosts </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225 url"><a
                href="https://git.systerserver.net"
                rel="noreferrer noopener" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://git.systerserver.net</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> Gitlab]</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
              Nextcloud, </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">a</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225"> </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
                href="https://systerserver.town"
                rel="noreferrer noopener" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://systerserver.town</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> </span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">Mastodon
              instance</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">]</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
            </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
                href="https://lists.systerserver.net/"
                rel="noreferrer noopener" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.systerserver.net/</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> m</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">ailing
              lists</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">]</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
              a </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
                href="https://tube.systerserver.net"
                rel="noreferrer noopener" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://tube.systerserver.net</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> feminist
              video</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">
              platform </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">(</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">PeerTube</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">)]</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
            </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
href="https://git.systerserver.net/systerserver/doc-website/-/wikis/home#tools%22%22"
                rel="noreferrer noopener" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://git.systerserver.net/systerserver/doc-website/-/wikis/home#tools%22%22</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> technical
              documentation]</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
            </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
href="https://git.systerserver.net/mara/vpn-zines/-/wikis/docs"
                rel="noreferrer noopener" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://git.systerserver.net/mara/vpn-zines/-/wikis/docs</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> </span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">VPN
              zines</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">]</span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">
              and the </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225 url"><a
                href="https://eclectictechcarnival.org/ETC/about/"
                rel="noreferrer noopener" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://eclectictechcarnival.org/ETC/about/</a></span><span
              class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">
              Eclectic Tech Carnival website</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">]</span></div>
          <div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><br>
            </span></div>
        </blockquote>
        <div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line">regarding the
          practical infos, we noticed an inconsistency between the email
          addresses on the wiki (<span
            class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225"><a
              class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:contact@systerserver.net"
              moz-do-not-send="true">contact@systerserver.net</a>) </span>and
          on systerserver.net (<span
            class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><a
              class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:info@systerserver.net" moz-do-not-send="true">info@systerserver.net</a>).
            are they both valid?</span></div>
        <div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
            class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
            class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">-
            <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="https://systerserver.net/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://systerserver.net/</a></span></div>
        <div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
            class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
            class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">we
            didn't come up with an actual proposal but natx brought up
            some various-sized paragraphs to replace or complete the
            existing one. you can find this all on the pad: <a
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="https://eth.leverburns.blue/p/alexandria_update"
              moz-do-not-send="true">https://eth.leverburns.blue/p/alexandria_update</a></span></div>
        <div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
            class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><br>
          </span></div>
        <div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
            class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">good
            night!<br>
          </span></div>
        <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 17/02/2025 Γ  20:05, mara a
          Γ©critΒ :<br>
        </div>
        <blockquote type="cite"
          cite="mid:F713B892-4A78-41D9-8870-6C7997199F8A@multiplace.org">
          <meta http-equiv="content-type"
            content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
          <div dir="auto">Indeed /etc was in 2002, and the syster server
            in 2005, I had found the date in the mailing list archives a
            while back, when we were writing the federation essay with
            nate<br>
            <br>
            mara</div>
          <br>
          <br>
          <div class="gmail_quote">
            <div dir="auto">On 17 February 2025 19:05:42 CET, nate
              wessalowski <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
                href="mailto:wessalow@posteo.de" moz-do-not-send="true"><wessalow@posteo.de></a>
              wrote:</div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
              <pre class="k9mail"><div dir="auto">hi all, we meet here in one hour: <a
href="https://visio.futuretic.fr/systerserveralexandriaupdate"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://visio.futuretic.fr/systerserveralexandriaupdate</a> [sorry, i completely forgot to send a reminder with the date and time, i hope someone shows up]]

On 1/24/25 12:24, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
              dir="auto">great, thanks. let me know after the meeting & i will do a proofreading.

(was systerserver actually founded as early as 2002? that was /etc, i thought systerserver came a bit later ... )

On 24/01/2025 12:03 pm, nats wessax wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
              dir="auto">cool, cool. here is the link to what it says now: <a
href="https://alexandria.anarchaserver.org/index.php/You_can_check_some_of_their_services_in_this_section#Systerserver"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://alexandria.anarchaserver.org/index.php/You_can_check_some_of_their_services_in_this_section#Systerserver</a>

On 1/24/25 11:55, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
              dir="auto">
i would be happy to proofread/check the systerserver text once it's done (english). is there a link to look at the text that's there now?

h : )

On 23/01/2025 4:57 pm, nats wessax wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #fcaf3e; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
              dir="auto">looks like monday 17th of febuary is a good time. anybody else wants to join? (i can also add more dates)

nate

On 1/18/25 16:00, nats wessax wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #e9b96e; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
              dir="auto">hi,

i am doing this round call for updating the anarchaserver wiki and it would also be cool to update the systerserver text there:

does anybody want to join me in rewriting the paragraph? then pls click the poll :))

<a
href="https://transitional.anarchaserver.org/date/studs.php?poll=uOdww6HW4zWwpVNB"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://transitional.anarchaserver.org/date/studs.php?poll=uOdww6HW4zWwpVNB</a> 

greets!

nate [they/them]

</div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><hr>Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><div class="k9mail-signature">-- 

helen varley jamieson

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:helen@creative-catalyst.com"
              moz-do-not-send="true">helen@creative-catalyst.com</a>
<a href="http://www.creative-catalyst.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.creative-catalyst.com</a>
<a href="http://www.upstage.org.nz" moz-do-not-send="true"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.upstage.org.nz</a>
<a href="https://mobilise-demobilise.eu" moz-do-not-send="true"
              class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://mobilise-demobilise.eu</a><hr>Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><hr>Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
              moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</div></blockquote></blockquote><div dir="auto"><hr>Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
              href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
              moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
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          <code>~~~β‹…β‹…β‹…~~~~β‹…β‹…β‹…β‹…β‹…~~β‹…<br>
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