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<p>thanks nate. the terms are and will be constantly evolving, so
will always benefit from being revisited & discussed. i'm fine
with "women, lesbians & trans*" for now, if everyone else is.</p>
<p>h : )<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/20/25 14:06, nate wessalowski
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:37c6da1a-1775-4f43-b3a2-c50122d1a3a3@posteo.de">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>hi helen, <br>
</p>
<p>thank you for your feedback and comments. we did indeed talk a
lot about how to describe our identity politics.</p>
<p>i have summed up some additional thoughts (mostly what we also
talked about but some also in addition to that):<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p>the phrasing "women, lesbians and trans*" pays tribute to a
branch of lesbian theory that makes a constructivist claim
about gender, popularized by monique wittig (afaik). it states
that lesbians are indeed not, or at least different than women
because the social gender of 'women' is defined in relation to
'men' (and lesbian identity would rather be defined in
relation to other lesbians or women). of course many lesbians
identify as women, such as some trans people, which are
sometimes also lesbians :) so it is not three different
categories, they are all intertwined. <br>
</p>
<p>and then there is another, historical argument for the
additional naming of lesbians, which is the importance of
their contribution to the 'women's movement'. i think that
the phasing 'women and lesbians' and later 'women, lesbians
and trans*' also has a tradition in early feminist organizing
but i would have to research that... </p>
<p>if we only name the 'women, lesbians and trans*, the 'trans*'
is meant to include non-binary people as they mostly
transitioned away from their assigned sex at birth, even if
they are not binary trans. however that is not true for inter
people, which is not so cool i guess.</p>
<p>so so other possibility is to go with the german acronym
FLINTA which includes 'women, lesbians, inter, non-binary,
trans and agender people'.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>i would wait a week or two to see if other people want to add
something to this discussion before i upload the entry to
alexandria.</p>
<p>cheers,</p>
<p>nate</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/18/25 12:08, Helen Varley
Jamieson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:29f00430-424d-46d1-b939-14657e0c6ea1@creative-catalyst.com">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>great work 🙂 i made some comments & suggestions on the
pad.</p>
<p>h : )<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/17/25 22:17, adalanerd wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:e9ffb496-bdbe-4433-af80-04cffbd3b5eb@hackstub.eu">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<p>hi everyone!</p>
<p>we took profit of this session to catch up and chat a bit
with natx and carmela. we took some time to discuss the
different phrasing options to replace the third and fourth
iteration of "women" by a more relevant one, and we come up
with a proposal for updating some bits. <br>
</p>
<p>- <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://alexandria.anarchaserver.org/index.php/You_can_check_some_of_their_services_in_this_section#Systerserver"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://alexandria.anarchaserver.org/index.php/You_can_check_some_of_their_services_in_this_section#Systerserver</a></p>
<p>proposal:<br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<div aria-live="assertive" id="magicdomid2008"
class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">Systerserver
is one of the earliest known feminist server
collectives. Systerserver was initially set up to get
more women involved in technology. Currently,
Systerserver is managed by women, lesbians and trans*
people fighting against the [<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://blackfeminisms.com/matrix/"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://blackfeminisms.com/matrix/</a>
'matrix of domination']. There are two main aims to the
project: a) creating a space where women, lesbians and
trans* people can become system administrators and
maintain free and open source software b) hosting
feminist infrastructures for technopolitical
organization within our communities and in part for
other feminist initiatives. The server hosts </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225 url"><a
href="https://git.systerserver.net"
rel="noreferrer noopener"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://git.systerserver.net</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> Gitlab]</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
Nextcloud, </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">a</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">
</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
href="https://systerserver.town"
rel="noreferrer noopener"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://systerserver.town</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> </span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">Mastodon
instance</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">]</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
href="https://lists.systerserver.net/"
rel="noreferrer noopener"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.systerserver.net/</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> m</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">ailing
lists</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">]</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
a </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
href="https://tube.systerserver.net"
rel="noreferrer noopener"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://tube.systerserver.net</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> feminist
video</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">
platform </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">(</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">PeerTube</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">)]</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
href="https://git.systerserver.net/systerserver/doc-website/-/wikis/home#tools%22%22"
rel="noreferrer noopener"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://git.systerserver.net/systerserver/doc-website/-/wikis/home#tools%22%22</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> technical
documentation]</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">,
</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs url"><a
href="https://git.systerserver.net/mara/vpn-zines/-/wikis/docs"
rel="noreferrer noopener"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://git.systerserver.net/mara/vpn-zines/-/wikis/docs</a></span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"> </span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">VPN
zines</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">]</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">
and the </span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">[</span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225 url"><a
href="https://eclectictechcarnival.org/ETC/about/"
rel="noreferrer noopener"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://eclectictechcarnival.org/ETC/about/</a></span><span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225">
Eclectic Tech Carnival website</span><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">]</span></div>
<div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><br>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
<div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line">regarding the
practical infos, we noticed an inconsistency between the
email addresses on the wiki (<span
class="author-a-z83zlz84zuz90zz68zz81z8z122z4hxz80z225"><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:contact@systerserver.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">contact@systerserver.net</a>) </span>and
on systerserver.net (<span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:info@systerserver.net"
moz-do-not-send="true">info@systerserver.net</a>). are
they both valid?</span></div>
<div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><br>
</span></div>
<div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">- <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://systerserver.net/" moz-do-not-send="true">https://systerserver.net/</a></span></div>
<div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><br>
</span></div>
<div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">we didn't
come up with an actual proposal but natx brought up some
various-sized paragraphs to replace or complete the
existing one. you can find this all on the pad: <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://eth.leverburns.blue/p/alexandria_update"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://eth.leverburns.blue/p/alexandria_update</a></span></div>
<div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs"><br>
</span></div>
<div aria-live="assertive" class="ace-line"><span
class="author-a-z65zz85zz68zz87zz84zz69zad17z86z0cz76zz78zs">good night!<br>
</span></div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Le 17/02/2025 Ã 20:05, mara a
écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:F713B892-4A78-41D9-8870-6C7997199F8A@multiplace.org">
<meta http-equiv="content-type"
content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<div dir="auto">Indeed /etc was in 2002, and the syster
server in 2005, I had found the date in the mailing list
archives a while back, when we were writing the federation
essay with nate<br>
<br>
mara</div>
<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="auto">On 17 February 2025 19:05:42 CET, nate
wessalowski <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:wessalow@posteo.de"
moz-do-not-send="true"><wessalow@posteo.de></a>
wrote:</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<pre class="k9mail"><div dir="auto">hi all, we meet here in one hour: <a
href="https://visio.futuretic.fr/systerserveralexandriaupdate"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://visio.futuretic.fr/systerserveralexandriaupdate</a> [sorry, i completely forgot to send a reminder with the date and time, i hope someone shows up]]
On 1/24/25 12:24, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #729fcf; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
dir="auto">great, thanks. let me know after the meeting & i will do a proofreading.
(was systerserver actually founded as early as 2002? that was /etc, i thought systerserver came a bit later ... )
On 24/01/2025 12:03 pm, nats wessax wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #ad7fa8; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
dir="auto">cool, cool. here is the link to what it says now: <a
href="https://alexandria.anarchaserver.org/index.php/You_can_check_some_of_their_services_in_this_section#Systerserver"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://alexandria.anarchaserver.org/index.php/You_can_check_some_of_their_services_in_this_section#Systerserver</a>
On 1/24/25 11:55, Helen Varley Jamieson wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #8ae234; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
dir="auto">
i would be happy to proofread/check the systerserver text once it's done (english). is there a link to look at the text that's there now?
h : )
On 23/01/2025 4:57 pm, nats wessax wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #fcaf3e; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
dir="auto">looks like monday 17th of febuary is a good time. anybody else wants to join? (i can also add more dates)
nate
On 1/18/25 16:00, nats wessax wrote:
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin: 0pt 0pt 1ex 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid #e9b96e; padding-left: 1ex;"><div
dir="auto">hi,
i am doing this round call for updating the anarchaserver wiki and it would also be cool to update the systerserver text there:
does anybody want to join me in rewriting the paragraph? then pls click the poll :))
<a
href="https://transitional.anarchaserver.org/date/studs.php?poll=uOdww6HW4zWwpVNB"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://transitional.anarchaserver.org/date/studs.php?poll=uOdww6HW4zWwpVNB</a>
greets!
nate [they/them]
</div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><hr>Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><div class="k9mail-signature">--
helen varley jamieson
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:helen@creative-catalyst.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">helen@creative-catalyst.com</a>
<a href="http://www.creative-catalyst.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.creative-catalyst.com</a>
<a href="http://www.upstage.org.nz" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.upstage.org.nz</a>
<a href="https://mobilise-demobilise.eu" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://mobilise-demobilise.eu</a><hr>Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</div></div></blockquote><div dir="auto"><hr>Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</div></blockquote></blockquote><div dir="auto"><hr>Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</div></pre>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div dir="auto">--<br>
mara.multiplace.org</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<code>~~~â‹…â‹…â‹…~~~~â‹…â‹…â‹…â‹…â‹…~~â‹…<br>
~â‹…~ Ada LaNerd ~â‹…â‹…<br>
~~â‹…~â‹…~â‹… <a
href="https://hackstub.eu/home/fr/membres/ada-lanerd"
moz-do-not-send="true">web</a> â‹…~~~â‹…â‹…<br>
~â‹… +33678250752 ~~<br>
â‹…â‹…~~~~â‹…~~~â‹…â‹…â‹…~~~â‹…~</code></div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p>helen varley jamieson<br>
</p>
<p> <a href="mailto:helen@creative-catalyst.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">helen@creative-catalyst.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.creative-catalyst.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.creative-catalyst.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.upstage.org.nz"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.upstage.org.nz</a><br>
<a href="https://mobilise-demobilise.eu/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" moz-do-not-send="true">https://mobilise-demobilise.eu</a></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
<pre wrap="" class="moz-quote-pre">_______________________________________________
Adminsysters mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org">Adminsysters@lists.genderchangers.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters">https://lists.genderchangers.org/mailman/listinfo/adminsysters</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p>helen varley jamieson<br>
</p>
<p> <a href="mailto:helen@creative-catalyst.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">helen@creative-catalyst.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.creative-catalyst.com"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.creative-catalyst.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.upstage.org.nz"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.upstage.org.nz</a><br>
<a href="https://mobilise-demobilise.eu/"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">https://mobilise-demobilise.eu</a></p>
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